msg0007 Subject: Homosexuality/Homophobia/Judging/Condemnation/Tolerance/Long Hair
Original Message:
Which do you think is the worst sin, Homosexuality or 'homophobia' (hatred/fear towards homosexuals)?
I just want to ask another question.
How come whenever the subject of homosexuality is brought up, automatically the term homophobic as well. Or hatred, or judgemental, or whatever.
If the bible stated it's wrong-it's wrong. Period.
God loves us so much, that he corrects us. If He didn't we are bas-----. The bible says that.
I am a father, when I tell my kids they are doing something wrong, am I being hateful? Judgemental? "Kid"ophobic? See?
Posted by parsons on 10/04/00 at 5:12 PM
Subject: where is the hatred????
In response to what DJ said about the posts made about gays. I don't think it was hateful at all. Do not people have the right to believe that homsexuality is wrong, as people have the right to believe its ok, like yourself. But stating ones opinion is not bad. freedom of speech is one of the USA's foundations. Without it we would no longer be america. I have the right to say I think homsexuality is wrong but that I can still have gay friends and love them because Jesus loves them.
A parent would love his child even though he broke the law, or at least should! I can love a person but not agree with their lifestyle. How is that hateful?
REPLY:
Do you have the right to say that racism is right?
Or to say that you love Black people but they are inferior, or bon in sin?
Where the limit of free speach????????????
Posted by K-Man on 10/11/00 at 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: where is the hatred????
I think I see what you're saying, friend; but with all due respect, it's not even close to being the same thing. Homosexual activists have been attacking evangelical Christians for years citing homophobia and bigotry in an attempt to draw the focus away from the true nature of the discussion. The Christian "attack", if you will, against homosexuality is not racism. It's not even close. Racism is an evaluation of a person based upon their skin color or nationality. Sexism is an evaluation of a person based upon their gender. Gender and nationality are features that are beyond the person's control... the way they're born. Some argue the same thing of homosexualty, but it's simply not true. Homosexuality is a LIFESTYLE, a BEHAVIOR. It is not a sin to be a woman or a man and it is not a sin to be black, white, or whatever. Sin is a BEHAVIOR. The sooner our society accepts that fact, the more-effective we will be at communicating the message of repentance, redemption, and salvation to the lost world.
I admire you guys' gentle nature on the discussion of this subject, but I think there's something important that needs to be pointed out. As you said, homosexuality is a sin, just like adultery, robbery, murder, etc. So who are we to tell people that they're sinning? We are the voice of God. No, we're not judging anybody by telling them that they're sinning. But we are judging if we tell them that they have no hope of forgiveness. Jesus told us that He would judge the living and the dead according to their deeds. We don't have to judge. We can't judge. Only Jesus can judge. But we are told to examine the "spirits" and judge a person's character. By their fruits ye shall know them. We're allowed to JUDGE in that sense, but not to CONDEMN. Jesus preached about hellfire and damnation. He told the rich young ruler that had obeyed all the commandments that he could not see the kingdom of heaven. Was that nice? Was it pleasant to hear? We don't always want to hear the truth, but the Truth should still always be spoken in love. If you're witnessing to homosexuals (or any other sinner) out of love for them and a sincere concern for their eternal welfare, then you've got the RIGHT ATTITUDE. If you're beating them up, calling them names, or killing them in the name of justice, then you're DEAD WRONG. Likewise, if you tell them to do whatever they want and God will not punish them, you're DEAD WRONG. NEVER dilute the Truth. NEVER compromise the Gospel of Jesus Christ. NEVER condone sin in the name of peace and harmony. Jesus died for our sins. He is willing to forgive us if we REPENT (confess our sins and turn away from them). That is our ONLY chance at salvation. Don't let a sinner go to Hell because you're too afraid to tell them the truth.
Posted by DJ on 10/02/00 at 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: TOPIC: Gay Issue
The fact is, it's not a sin. People that are homosexual are born that way, they didn't choose to become gay, it's who they are. Im not playing devil's advocate, its been proven scientifically that they are born that way, no not because god wanted it that way, but because of their chemical makeup.
Posted by Scott on 10/03/00 at 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: The BIBLE
Question, does not the fact that homosexuality is wrong appear in the Bible only in the Old Testament? Or did Jesus say it was wrong to lie with another man?
I am not sure. Let me know. If it was only in the Old Testament, then most of the Old Testament has to extent changed with the coming of Christ. If we listen to the Old Testament, it says long hair is wrong and tattoos as well.
Posted by K-Man on 10/03/00 at 2:41 AM
Subject: Points of Clarification...
Just some points of clarification for the querist:
The Old Testament doesn't say long hair is wrong. Samson had long hair. Samuel had long hair. It was the sign of the Nazarite and the vow that they made to covenant their lives to God. In the New Testament, Paul said that it was a "shame" or a "disgrace" for a man to have long hair or for a woman to have short hair. Some theologians believe this was due to the homosexual tendencies for men to try to appear as women, and for women to try to appear as men. Others state that Jewish men, as was customary at the time, had long hair, and Romans had short hair. Paul was a Roman. Either way, it depends on the circumstance why you have long hair, whether it's wrong or right. Jesus said it is the heart that defiles a man (Matt 15).
Also, the New Testament condemns homosexuality as a sin
just as the O.T. does. I Corinthians 6:9 says, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters not adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders... will inherit the Kingdom of God." Besides, Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. That doesn't mean that it's okay to sin, just that we can be forgiven for it if we accept Christ and repent.
And even if they WERE born that way, Psalm 51 says, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me... Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me." So they ARE born that way. We are ALL born into sin, but we don't have to stay that way. Jesus offers forgiveness. Jesus offers life and TRUE HAPPINESS and FULFILLMENT, if we would just accept it.
Christian peace,
